( 1/ Ariane JACKSON answers about OT8:
past text from 1996 in blue)
(2/ Answers from Ariane to questions in Feb and March 1998, black letters)
(3: my questions in italics)
RE: Re: ...OT8?
1. What security checks must be taken before the course?
Before starting OT8, I received a huge sec-check in Flag.
I got the 3D sec-check, an auditor sec check as I was a Class 6 auditor, and a tailor-made
sec-check. After all those, I got a B of I with 3 ethics officers asking me questions. They made me feel
as though I was a criminal.
2.What papers does one sign not to reveal anything?
The same docs which you sign before doing any OT level.
3.Are there frequent searches on you between courses, by
instance when you come back to your room?
NO, as on OT8 you must to plug your course folder (to the electronically
watched table) and give it back to the security guard.
4.Other specifics on the topic, like price, nr of hours,
needed repairs before starting, FESes...)
Before starting I had to pay 4 intensives of sec-check in Flag, plus
another one on the boat before starting OT8, plus the sec check you have to get after finishing OT8. OT 8 plus
preps and FESes, was circa 50000 $.
5. Were you allowed to see your own pc-pre-OT folders before the auditing itself?
No. You never have access to any of your folders.
6. Do you accept to see your answers on the net?
You can put everything on the net, I have nothing to hide. If you want
more details, ask me whatever questions you want.
My description is from memory, you'll see that there is little to forget...
The new OT8 is in two parts A and B.
The part A is drilling and others trainings asked by a CS 53 (this action
being supposed to find and "erase" the mental traumas from past auditings or life situations which could
inhibit the auditing)
1.Could we say
that those drills are done while auditing the CS 53? or is it auditing drills?
On the part A, one has to redo the whole series of e-meter drills,
correction lists and C/S 53, that you have to audit solo before starting the real OT8 part.
2.What could be the
justification to get back to this auditing lower levels? Does he give some?
Nothing; just that you have not yet finished the level.
3.Does one audit there BTs with a CS 53?
Yes: when I audited my CS 53, everything was flat, so, no new BTs.
The B Part asks to read "A history of the Man" and to be entirely
checked on one's understanding, then to study and audit solo on the new OT8.
Could you extend what you understood from that and its relationship with past auditings? - I don't see myself any
reason to get back on the Clams story or other "Fac 1"... it looks so crazy and without any technical
relationship, a thing I am not used into the Hubbard's series... Did he gave some justifications?
You don't audit on clams or this sort of things. The only thing you
do on OT8 is getting back on past auditing and to ask the "right or wrong" question on the identities
you have run in past auditing. By instance, in your Dianetic auditing, you found being Maupassant: on OT8, you'll
ask 'right' or 'wrong' on this identity.
3. Is that done with sort of Listing and Nulling
processes which could help to become aware of the absence of "identities" coming from lower levels, and
which could therefore lead to the conclusion that those past lives did not exist?
No; no Listing and Nulling; only to remember past identities audited in past auditing.
You are not allowed to look in your folders to remember
identities. Some persons responsible to deliver OT8 have been sent to the RPF because they suggested some methods
to people they supervised. Having no oral instructions, we were not able to know what to do.
The first thing is a CS/53, then the C/S's instructions are to:
1/ Fly a rud.
1.The ruds, it's on you or on supposed BTs?
It looks idiot enough, as from OT2 on, ruds have little weight, except on BTs...
When you fly a rud, you ask if the rud is out, and if it's you or a BT or cluster.
2/ OT8 and its instructions do not vary during the rundown. This an exemple
of what I did in a real session, what i wrote, as I had to write this down. I took the identity "Beethoven",
as I recalled to have believed being "Beethoven" during auditing. I looked the meter while asking "right"
and "wrong"; no reaction on right, a fall on "wrong". I had teherfeore not been Beethoven.
I wrote down:
"Beethoven: right? X (X= no read)
"Beethoven: wrong? LF (long fall, an e-meter read) and F/N (F/N :free
needle, that means that the action regarding Beethoven is finished and that I'm satisfied of it)
From every identities I checked on OT8, only one showed right.
1. Can we get the detail of the identity, why
it could be right "technically" or "according your judgement"?
No. You ask the identity right or wrong and if you get a read on "right"
on this identity, it's a right one. Nothing else.
I was allowed to attest that I had finished when I
got a big "cognition" about
death. I was very afraid by death before, a fear never solved by past auditing. ON OT8, I realized that me, as
a being, I would never been dead and that I was "totally outside" as scientologists would say.
I suppose (perhaps wrongly) that you could have done that sort of cognition half a dozen
times before about death and onto your own permanency as a being - scienos speak so often from past lives! - did
you get some really different feeling about that cog, that it could be linked to that specific process differently
from the other ones you got before?
No. That OT8 level has stunned me a lot, because everything was so vague,
and I was not alone to get that feeling.
Could that possibly be the possible
cog of the level or a specific one for the level?
I've no opinion. The cog which influenced me to attest was on death,
and I had a floating TA while coming to examiner.
I was therefore on OT8 , came back home, and fell very
soon ill. Due to the cult's boastings, OT8 are considered half-gods and must hide the problems and anomalies they
Some of the problems in OT8s: alcohol, homosexuality
- (that scientology considers degrading and pervert praticed only by individuals having not enough worth to get
ANY right into the society), out 2Ds affairs, voyeurism, criminality, infaction and divorce.
I have had some opportunities to study the "cases"
of some of them and to speak to them, and i realizd I was far from alone to have problems.
1. Did you speak to the C/S that you were ill,
or another 'terminal'?
No. I did not speak to the C/S. But some times later every OT 8 having
attested before the N° 500, I believe, were asked to come back urgently to the boat as there was out-tech,
which explained why many were ill. I did not want to come back but I receivbed an order to go immediately on the
Freewinds, otherwise I could have some ethics problems... On the boat I got a repair list which was a CS 53. Back
home in *********, with a fantastic headache, and I was forced to get in bed.
2. Did they proposed whatever repair or ridicule
handling that you accepted or refused?
Yes, The C/S 53 to have done on board.
3.Do you think that the illness was caused by the
wrong indications or explanations of the OT8 tech?
For me it's a mystery. What's interesting is that I did OT8 with three
other people, and came home first. When they went home one week later, they were ill, flu, headache, fever.
4. Did that reinforced or make appear some inabilities,
as I have been able to observe on more than one OT on OT3 or NOTs?
This is indeed important: do you believe
that a great number of OT8 have spoken together -perhaps without authorization- of their processes, cogs etc?
I cannot answer.. you know, that OT being the super-level,
we were looked at as superior beings, therefore we were hiding our disappointments, doubts...
2. Did you see other similarties than those mentioned?
Yes, more or less. Did you know Veronique Pizzinat? When I went on
my review/repair, I was in her room. She was on the boat since perhaps 3 months on OT8, wholly hallucinatiing.
She wanted to borrow 10000$, and said that with the abilities she had
back from OT8, she could get those 10000$ just before the Reg, but that she did not want to do it, to not make
him/her afraid. Inepties of this sort, I saw many on people
having done OT8.
1. Could you develop, by instance; would you
think that those having not leaved scientology before (ot8) are those who, perhaps, have had bad auditing up to
It is difficult to answer that question. Perhpas are they those people
responding the best to brainwashing, those who do not think much. A great lot of courage is needed to leave scientology,
even more when you are high on the "Bridge".
2. Or do you think that they could be yet to straighten
some criter never solved despite hubbardian allegations?
3. Other idea on this? (did you get the same feeling
on OT8 than when pcs or pre-OTs were speaking of their auditing before, that is, that they were afraid to really
expose their cogs etc? Other ideas on this?
Yes, I got that feeling. When I did OT8, each morning, we had to have a meeting
on the deck and say our last day cogs, and i can assure you it was not easy for many, or they were those stupid
cogs, like getting the rain raining on this area having not had any since months...
I am sorry not to have answered sooner, but I was on exams for the last
semester? Now I'm on holidays for two weeks, so, if you have some questions... I'm not at all annoyed to speak
When I 'm looking backway, I do not understand how I could have been
so stupid to let others manipulate me this way; having been so anxious about ethics and having allowed them to
lead my life, having loist my children for them, everything I have accepted for nothing in the long run. So, if
my experience can stop some others to make the same stupid things, I'd have not lost everything.
1.did you get or saw some others getting "ethics handlings" before or whilst
the OT8 run? sec-checks during auditing, people ill, etc...
Before starting OT8, on the boat, every futire OT8 go to the Ethics
Officer, and if he thinks they are some ethics handlings to do before starting OT8, this is done. There is also
a sec-check before starting it. You know, when I did OT8, we were only 5 or 6, very few...
2. Were there repair lists done by auditors, not in solo, for some overwhelms, and were
those list billed in supplement?
Sure indeed! Veronique Pizzinat, the wife of Dominique, (Ecole du Rythme
- they divorced since) had to do many repair lists and to pay intensives, as she got auditing from an auditor.
3. Could you estimate the average duration of
A/ the theory course
Theory is circa one week long
B/ Time needed
by people to audit on it?
Between one and two weeks
C/ how many pasges for the
The A section theory, some 20 pages. Every e-meter drills,
plus repair lists. Section B: 2 or 3 pages.
(the two last questions, added with the ante-last qlist of questions)
Regarding everything that you experienced, do you really believe that Ron -or even
Mayo - could have written something so contradicting the levels before?
(I would have supposed that he could jump to another more or less craziness
like the Wall of Fire TERTIO, or auditing of the OTs dreams with a new tech, or whatever could be the sort of LRH
-or Mayo- thing ; but this search for wrong identities looks really very contradictory to all the past techs, this
is the reason of that question upon the SOURCE, pehraps not LRH or Mayo?
Hard to answer: the bulletins I've read on OT8 looked the Hubbard's
style. You could ask Vaughn Young, he knows him, having worked for him.
Thanks very much for your memory efforts! this OT8 affair looks so strange when compared
to the remaining which was already absurd, but at least, deserved some merit for its incredibility, that this come-back
to old receipts could indicate a faked level from a Miscavige, or an auditor not believing in what he lived till
Last of last
Do you really believe possible that they are levl OT 9 to 15, and would you have any idea
seeming "logical" as to what those levels could be, after all this?
I am strongly in doubt about any possible upper levels; OT8 was seen
some ten years before, and just observe the numerous prerequisites now needed to go onto OT 9: SHSBC, and certainly
much more. Certainly Miscavige tries desperately to prepare an OT9 since many years, but without succeeding...
That was that, Roger
Ariane Jackson, September 1996.- Ariane Jackson Feb-March 98